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Post by hotrod on Nov 18, 2011 19:28:56 GMT -6
After seeing Dale's comment about running a ps with a peg started me thinking. I'm planning/thinking about the December ps race.
What are the major design differences (assume both are short wheelbase) between ps and limited regarding com, weight distribution, steer, tuning, etc. I sure it's not as easy as removing a wheel on ps and adding a peg and a little weight.
Ed
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Post by murph on Nov 18, 2011 23:14:08 GMT -6
Ed, I have a Pure Stocker named PS-02 that shares the single run record at PWDR. The car used six 1/4" cubes behind the rear axle followed by four 1/4" cubes. No more cubes behind these four cubes. From a functional standpoint, it should be better to distribute three rows of cubes behind the rear axle. In front of the rear axle, I used two rows of six 1/4" cubes. My new builds might make this car obsolete. However, this will be my stocker to set the baseline for my Pure Stock fleet. Murph
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Nov 19, 2011 8:55:33 GMT -6
After seeing Dale's comment about running a ps with a peg started me thinking. I'm planning/thinking about the December ps race. What are the major design differences (assume both are short wheelbase) between ps and limited regarding com, weight distribution, steer, tuning, etc. I sure it's not as easy as removing a wheel on ps and adding a peg and a little weight. Ed Ed, the only differences between the new Pure Stock Class rules and the limited rules are: wheel OD size limit, adding a 4th wheel, wheel base limits & having to use nail type axles. So if you had a limited car that had a short (4-3/8) wheelbase my guess is that you would just have to add a 4th wheel and also make sure the wheels are 1.170 in diameter and you are good. This class has the same rules as the PDDR Pure Stock class except the PWDR rules eliminate the ambiguity in how far you can turn down the wheel OD. This rule is a great change by Evo and eliminates a racer having an advantage over another by ones limit on how far he will push the rules over another racers. As far as you original questions and how do you set-up a pure stocker different than a limited car? Of course with the pure stock car you will have more opportunity to add more weight behind the rear axles, but you also have a shorter WB which equals less stability. Personally I would set them up the same. Some of my faster PS/Limited cars with a shorter WB have been faster. I think you will find that the 4th wheel is going to make the time difference in pure stock and limited, not so much the wheelbase. Also in all the other PWDR classes, just because you can stretch the wheelbase all the way out to the ends of the car doesn't mean you should. Clear as mudd?
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Post by ZZ Racing on Nov 19, 2011 9:08:12 GMT -6
) Axles A. Minumum axle diameter is .084 B. Nail type axles are the only axles allowed (BSA, DerbyWorx, Derby Evolution, ect.) C. Grooves and modification of the axles is allowed as long as the journal portion of the axles (the part the wheel rides on) is no less then .084 diameter. Axles must have a nail style head, headless axles are not allowed.
you must run nail type axles with heads.
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Nov 19, 2011 9:19:36 GMT -6
) Axles A. Minumum axle diameter is .084 B. Nail type axles are the only axles allowed (BSA, DerbyWorx, Derby Evolution, ect.) C. Grooves and modification of the axles is allowed as long as the journal portion of the axles (the part the wheel rides on) is no less then .084 diameter. Axles must have a nail style head, headless axles are not allowed. you must run nail type axles with heads. Thanks Derrick! I might as well of added that bushings were allowed! It must have been wishful thinking. I modified my post...
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Post by Evolution on Nov 19, 2011 9:22:56 GMT -6
Pure Stock
nail style axles only 1.170 diameter wheels 4 3/8" wheelbase
Limited Rules are changing for 2012, they will be posted this coming week
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Nov 19, 2011 9:39:33 GMT -6
) Axles A. Minumum axle diameter is .084 B. Nail type axles are the only axles allowed (BSA, DerbyWorx, Derby Evolution, ect.) C. Grooves and modification of the axles is allowed as long as the journal portion of the axles (the part the wheel rides on) is no less then .084 diameter. Axles must have a nail style head, headless axles are not allowed. you must run nail type axles with heads. Evolution could you elaborate on this rule? I can make axles completely out of stainless steel where the head can be removed is that legal? Can I even make axles myself? Is this rule saying that I have to use a purchased axle where you have to remove the axle from the body to remove the wheel? Also, I believe the rules regarding washers, bushing, bearings are the same as in the limited class.... and in the limited class it is allowed to use spacers on the inside and outside of the wheel. So if that is true and spacers are allowed then what is the difference between using a headless axle with a teflon retainer and using a axle with a head and sliding on a teflon spacer? Not being argumentative here, just wanted some clarification...
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Post by hotrod on Nov 19, 2011 17:41:20 GMT -6
thanks guys. I was looking more for the setup differences. I have had pure stockers when I pulled the 4th wheel, it would pick up .015 while other cars the 4th wheel makes very little difference. I have also had limited that would wiggle, add 4th wheel and it would run smooth as silk. I asked just trying to get a handle on any minor design or setup differences. After all we have a ps and limited race next month! Ed
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Post by scubersteve on Nov 19, 2011 18:41:12 GMT -6
does spacewalkers built-in plastic stuff behind the wheels count as a washer? I believe the rules said no washers
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Nov 19, 2011 19:08:42 GMT -6
You are correct Scuber, but it says the same thing in the limited class rules and Teflon spacers and Spacewalker's built-ins are legal in limited.
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Post by scubersteve on Nov 19, 2011 20:34:26 GMT -6
not that I'm complaining... I bought some of that stuff myself
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Post by ZZ Racing on Nov 20, 2011 5:24:00 GMT -6
The aero plastic is legal in pure stock. It works really well I have switched from Teflon to the plastic with most of my cars.
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Nov 20, 2011 8:35:53 GMT -6
Looking closer at the pure stock/limited rules I see that in limited bearings, bushings and inserts are illegal and in PS bearing bushings and washers are illegal.
So in the PS class you can NOT have washers or spacers between the head of the axle and the wheel or between the body and the wheel. It looks like material added to the body is legal so you could use aero type plastic additions to the body like ZZ said.
The nail type axle with a head requirement is a little puzzling to me, but I suppose it keeps everybody closer to a scout type build.
I am sure I am confusing everybody here Evo, so after you get rested please confirm what is legal or not legal with Teflon spacers on the axle, aero washer in the body, etc...
Looks like it will be a fun class.
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Post by steepslope on Nov 20, 2011 8:45:06 GMT -6
) Axles A. Minumum axle diameter is .084 B. Nail type axles are the only axles allowed (BSA, DerbyWorx, Derby Evolution, ect.) C. Grooves and modification of the axles is allowed as long as the journal portion of the axles (the part the wheel rides on) is no less then .084 diameter. Axles must have a nail style head, headless axles are not allowed. you must run nail type axles with heads. Evolution could you elaborate on this rule? I can make axles completely out of stainless steel where the head can be removed is that legal? Can I even make axles myself? Is this rule saying that I have to use a purchased axle where you have to remove the axle from the body to remove the wheel? Also, I believe the rules regarding washers, bushing, bearings are the same as in the limited class.... and in the limited class it is allowed to use spacers on the inside and outside of the wheel. So if that is true and spacers are allowed then what is the difference between using a headless axle with a teflon retainer and using a axle with a head and sliding on a teflon spacer? Not being argumentative here, just wanted some clarification... I believe Evolution can clear this up better, but this is what I recall when we were talking about the rules... The axle is a nail type axle with nail style head. You cannot use a stainless steel axle with removeable head. You must use a purchased axle that conforms to this rule, just like you have to use BSA wheel (new or old). In Limited, you may use washers. In Pure Stock, you may not. Spacewalker's model of inserting plastic into the body at the axle hole is legal in both divisions as it adheres to Rule 1) B. The car body may be enhanced by the addition of other stable materials such as plastic or metal. Any additions must be firmly attached and meet car size requirements.
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Nov 20, 2011 9:10:18 GMT -6
Thanks Steepslope... That clears it up!
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