Question about Pro Mods

[beakerboysracing]

Making plans for 2009 and had a question about Pro Mods:

Since bearings will be allowed in '09, will they be scored separately from needles or will all the Pro Mods be grouped together?

Scott

Beakerboys

[Lucky 13]

Dec 11, 2008 7:48:43 GMT -6 beakerboysracing said:

Making plans for 2009 and had a question about Pro Mods:

Since bearings will be allowed in '09, will they be scored separately from needles or will all the Pro Mods be grouped together?

Scott

Beakerboys

Scott,

They will all be grouped together !!



Lucky 13

[beakerboysracing]

Scott,

They will all be grouped together !!

Lucky 13

Not that my opinion carries much weight, I believe the should be separated. If not, what I've seen at other venues, needles can't compete and I think you might limited the amount of participation from those that don't mess with bearings.


my 2 cents

Scott

Beakerboys

[234]

For what it is worth I agree with Scott. Bearings and Needles should be seperated.

Leo

[sappingtonr]

If it is true what Beak has said about bearings being faster than straight needles, then, eventually needles as we know them today will be obsolete.

I'm still trying to figure out how to make a needle axles car go fast. Don't think I'm nearly ready to compete with bearings.

[234]

Ok,

I am sorry but I have to say this. Personally, I don't think you can lump needle axle Pro-Mods and Pro-Mods with bearings in the same class. It is simply not fair and will only hurt a division with very little participation already.

Furthermore, if you look carefully at the 2009 rules you will see that rule number 8 under AXLES states: Axles must not be connected to any device that mechanically alters rotation and spin.

Webster’s definition of a Bearing

Bearing (mechanics), mechanical device for decreasing friction in a machine in which a moving part bears—that is, slides or rolls while exerting force—on another part.

I don't know about you guys but my pea brain’s interpretation of rule number 8 under Axles says that bearings should be illegal in the Pro-Mod division because they mechanically alter the rotation and spin of the wheel they are attached too.

I know this opens up a whole can of worms but I can’t help but feel like it is something that we need to take under consideration before the start of the 2009 season.

Thanks,
Leo

[Lucky 13]

We have almost 2 months before the start of the 2009 season guys, so there is plenty of time to work this out in a way that is favorable for everyone hopefully !! With that being said, what do we want to do to resolve the issue ? I see several possible solutions, but this is an open discussion, so let's hear everyones opinions.

1. Run the Pro-Mod class as one division, but separate the needle and bearing cars in the results. Effectively you would have 2 classes in one with a separate points system and top 3 and record holders. Basically a Pro-Mod A (axles) and a Pro-Mod B (bearings).

2. Run Pro-Mod A and Pro-Mod B as two separate classes altogether. Give each of them their own thread on the board (is there enough interest to do this ?).

3. Make another class, Open Mod, Super Pro-Mod (something like that ??) and allow bearing in it and remove the bearing rule from the Pro-Mod class. Maybe even go as far as allowing any type of body material. Simply put..5 ounces, 7 inches, gravity feed, anything else goes !! The downfall is participation. Do we have enough builders interested in doing this to justify opening up another class ?

These are a few ideas to ponder. Please speak up and give any ideas you may have. To be totally honest Pro-Mod is not a class I am very familiar with and until talking to Beaker tonight, I had no clue there was such a difference in needles and bearings !!

For the record, if I'm not mistaken, rule 8 is actually in reference to someone having a "motor" on a car that spins the axles !!


Lucky 13

[Da Pine Racing]

The original idea of a single Pro Mod class allowing bearings for 09 was sparking an interest in me to finally set out & focus on bearings. I have yet to build a bearing car faster than my needle cars.

There are two builders, B&B and Mugiver that are ahead of the game with bearings. Although it probably will be a lesson in futility, The kick for me will be trying to close the gap.

I like all the classes but don't see myself sending in a car for every class each month. If the Pro Mod classes are split, that makes 8 classes excluding specialty races?

I think I'm rambling However it washes out is fine with me Lucky13

Da Pine

[Mr. Slick]

If the builders want to have a Pro-Modified and a Pro-Bearing division, I have no problem with that.

Will there be a plain Bearing Division for large axle bearing cars?

Are there Razor wheel bearings and Wide wheel bearings?

I would like to race the divisions together unless there are at least 3 cars in each division. This will reduce overall race time by keeping the lanes full and the computer keeps track of the actual divisions like we used to do with Modified and Pro-Modified, etc.

Means we will need more sections on the dicsussion board and I'll have to update the 2009 registration form.

[beakerboysracing]

Dec 11, 2008 19:50:44 GMT -6 Lucky 13 said:

We have almost 2 months before the start of the 2009 season guys, so there is plenty of time to work this out in a way that is favorable for everyone hopefully !! With that being said, what do we want to do to resolve the issue ? I see several possible solutions, but this is an open discussion, so let's hear everyones opinions.

1. Run the Pro-Mod class as one division, but separate the needle and bearing cars in the results. Effectively you would have 2 classes in one with a separate points system and top 3 and record holders. Basically a Pro-Mod A (axles) and a Pro-Mod B (bearings).

2. Run Pro-Mod A and Pro-Mod B as two separate classes altogether. Give each of them their own thread on the board (is there enough interest to do this ?).

3. Make another class, Open Mod, Super Pro-Mod (something like that ??) and allow bearing in it and remove the bearing rule from the Pro-Mod class. Maybe even go as far as allowing any type of body material. Simply put..5 ounces, 7 inches, gravity feed, anything else goes !! The downfall is participation. Do we have enough builders interested in doing this to justify opening up another class ?

These are a few ideas to ponder. Please speak up and give any ideas you may have. To be totally honest Pro-Mod is not a class I am very familiar with and until talking to Beaker tonight, I had no clue there was such a difference in needles and bearings !!

For the record, if I'm not mistaken, rule 8 is actually in reference to someone having a "motor" on a car that spins the axles !!


Lucky 13

I like option 3 the most and this why:
1. You deal with fairness with regards to needles vs. bearings.
2. Opening up to any kind of material for construction of the body is cool. I personally don't have the ability to make an all metal car, but I know there are some guys out there that do that don't currently race here so maybe we can attract more participation from other builders.

Warren, I don't see a reason why both classes can't be run on the track at the same time and then the results separated out later for your convenence. If we start getting more participation in both classes, then maybe separate them out.

As for wide wheels and bearings, I believe the rules would allow a builder to use wide wheels already, though probably not competitive with razor wheels, rules don't limit the width of the wheels used in this class.

I'm really getting stoked about this bearing thing. Got stuff coming to start experimenting. ;D

I like EXTREME PRO MODS for the name.

Scott

Beakerboys

[234]

1. Run the Pro-Mod class as one division, but separate the needle and bearing cars in the results. Effectively you would have 2 classes in one with a separate points system and top 3 and record holders. Basically a Pro-Mod A (axles) and a Pro-Mod B (bearings).

Option 1 in Lucky's post seems Ok with me. That way Warren will not need to make any changes to the registration sheet and we can keep the Pro-Mod division as is.

Leo

[Lucky 13]

Out of curiosity...How many people are planning on running a Pro-Mod (w/ needle axles) and how many are planning on running a bearing car next season ? If there is enough interest in both types, I could see that making another class would be worth the time, if not...one class would be the way to go. Thanks !!



Lucky 13

[ProQuest]

Hey Lucky,

Please clarify. When you say "one class would be the way to go." Do you mean one class where needles and bearing run together, and have only one winner and one track record? Or do you mean one class where needles and bearing run together, but separate winners and separate track records, etc., would be recognized? Sorry, but I'm not clear on that? Thanks.

Steve

[234]

Out of curiosity...How many people are planning on running a Pro-Mod (w/ needle axles) and how many are planning on running a bearing car next season ? If there is enough interest in both types, I could see that making another class would be worth the time, if not...one class would be the way to go. Thanks !!

Just needle for me

[Bubba]

Dec 12, 2008 14:27:28 GMT -6 @234 said:

Out of curiosity...How many people are planning on running a Pro-Mod (w/ needle axles) and how many are planning on running a bearing car next season ? If there is enough interest in both types, I could see that making another class would be worth the time, if not...one class would be the way to go. Thanks !!

Just needle for me

Probably same for me, really doubt I'd venture into bearings at this point.

Haven't thought much about next year, though, we're in fulll "Cub Scout mode" with District and Pack activities, holding PWD workshops, etc...

Bubba