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Post by steepslope on Feb 26, 2009 22:38:19 GMT -6
A lot of you know that jayjayrocketman and I have been posting questions lately in our quest to enter and eventually win races. Our immediate goal is to gain enough information in order to eventually be competitive. Listed below are things that we have or know and things or questions we still seek answers to.
-We both have tools- Scroll saw, table saw, drill press, dremel, dremel work station, table mounted belt sander, and cordless drill. -Run three wheels with fourth raised. -Figure out how to cant wheels and adjust to perfection. - Rail riding is quickest way down. Either with narrow front or canting of wheels. Is one better than the other? Can you combine both methods? - Should we always use speed axles? - Does everyone use the BSA 1 gram wheels? - Should we not even think about using lead and always use tungsten weight? - Has anyone built a winning car using lead? - Figure out the art of applying Bondo or Evercoat. I am working with Bondo red putty now in order to get my car super smooth. - Hob-e-lube or Nyoil? We've been using Nyoil lately. - Use the Block? - Build a shipping case from an old tackle box.
Is that everything? I'm sure it's not. I know that there is a learning curve and it will take a little while but we appreciate all the help so far.
Last thing- We are using a new 48ft Miro Wizard track. I believe the proxy races are run on a 42ft Best Track. How do we convert the times we run on our track to compare to the Best Track. I believe the degree of slope is more gradual on our track.
Thanks again for everyone's help and input.
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Post by psycaz on Feb 27, 2009 6:03:03 GMT -6
I'll take a stab at a couple. Case: I have had luck using the Toob. Car came back fine. Actually running a bit faster than when I shipped it out. I should just send it around the country for a bit and then I might have a chance. Railriding, your choice on the cant/narow. I'll be doing both on my car that will hopefully make a March appearance - have to rebuild it as I broke the thing tweaking the front end. Wheels - that depends on the class you want to run. Those are limited in the rules as to what you can use in each. Tungsten/lead debate - folks build fast cars with each. Use what you have and what lets you make the design you want. Oils - try Krytox. No where as near finicky as NyOil. I ended up using our NyOil as a carrier when doing axles - works great there. Hope that helps a bit.
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Post by F.A.S.T Racing on Feb 27, 2009 11:07:47 GMT -6
A lot of you know that jayjayrocketman and I have been posting questions lately in our quest to enter and eventually win races. Our immediate goal is to gain enough information in order to eventually be competitive. Listed below are things that we have or know and things or questions we still seek answers to. -We both have tools- Scroll saw, table saw, drill press, dremel, dremel work station, table mounted belt sander, and cordless drill. -Run three wheels with fourth raised. -Figure out how to cant wheels and adjust to perfection. - Rail riding is quickest way down. Either with narrow front or canting of wheels. Is one better than the other? Can you combine both methods? - Should we always use speed axles? - Does everyone use the BSA 1 gram wheels? - Should we not even think about using lead and always use tungsten weight? - Has anyone built a winning car using lead? - Figure out the art of applying Bondo or Evercoat. I am working with Bondo red putty now in order to get my car super smooth. - Hob-e-lube or Nyoil? We've been using Nyoil lately. - Use the Block? - Build a shipping case from an old tackle box. Is that everything? I'm sure it's not. I know that there is a learning curve and it will take a little while but we appreciate all the help so far. Last thing- We are using a new 48ft Miro Wizard track. I believe the proxy races are run on a 42ft Best Track. How do we convert the times we run on our track to compare to the Best Track. I believe the degree of slope is more gradual on our track. Thanks again for everyone's help and input. I'll answer a few......(in order from your list) * Good list.... I would recommend an accurate scale, a quality combination square and a 10x magnifying loupe. * YES * The BLOCK from Jewkes Eng makes this a snap. * I combine both, but I guess it's a matter of personal preference. * If you add a Mini-Lathe to your tool list, you can make your own axles. I have made my own axles, the cost vs. time ratio makes purchasing speed axles my choice. * Depends on class rules. * Lead is almost free.. Tungsten is pricey. I like the flexibility that lead offers in car design and the ease of fine tuning the weight. * To my knowledge ALL the Jewkes Bros. cars were lead powered. Hard to ignore a 2 time "National Champ" (Overall Winners at 2007 Lima & 2008 Bluegrass) * Dump the Bondo, stick with the Evercoat. Bondo sands lousy has too many pinholes. * Use what works best for you. I like Hob-E-Lube, never could get the "knack" for juice..... * The Block makes alignment a snap. This tool has been the single greatest step (for me) to building a faster car. * I'd love for you to buy a "t00b" But this thread shows how to make your own shipping case: pwdracing.proboards91.com/index.cgi?board=shipping&action=display&thread=351Hope this helps.
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Post by steepslope on Feb 27, 2009 12:17:00 GMT -6
Thanks for the responses thus far! Some updates that I forgot: - We both have an accurate scale and combination square. - What is a 10x magnifying loupe? - It's great to hear that there is success with lead. Jayman is a mechanic so we have access. - I started with Bondo because I found it first but I will try Everoat. - I never could get the knack for hob-e-lube. It always seemed more got on the table than on the axles. Is there a trick to applying? Has anyone used Jig-a-loo graphite extreme spray? - I have looked at the toob. Looks like a nice design with good reviews. I was looking for something for 2 cars so jayjayrocketman and I could send in our cars together. - Any idea who I should direct my track length and slope conversion question to?
Thanks again!
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Post by psycaz on Feb 27, 2009 12:29:10 GMT -6
As far as applying graphite, we have had great luck with actually applying the graphite to the axle shaft in the slot - we have to use slots for scouts, then spinning the wheel and tapping the body to allow the graphite to flow into the wheel hub.
Seems to help grind the graphite and keep it from clumping.
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Post by Quillen Racing on Feb 27, 2009 16:33:38 GMT -6
A lot of you know that jayjayrocketman and I have been posting questions lately in our quest to enter and eventually win races. Our immediate goal is to gain enough information in order to eventually be competitive. Listed below are things that we have or know and things or questions we still seek answers to. -We both have tools- Scroll saw, table saw, drill press, dremel, dremel work station, table mounted belt sander, and cordless drill. -Run three wheels with fourth raised. -Figure out how to cant wheels and adjust to perfection. - Rail riding is quickest way down. Either with narrow front or canting of wheels. Is one better than the other? Can you combine both methods? - Should we always use speed axles? - Does everyone use the BSA 1 gram wheels? - Should we not even think about using lead and always use tungsten weight? - Has anyone built a winning car using lead? - Figure out the art of applying Bondo or Evercoat. I am working with Bondo red putty now in order to get my car super smooth. - Hob-e-lube or Nyoil? We've been using Nyoil lately. - Use the Block? - Build a shipping case from an old tackle box. Is that everything? I'm sure it's not. I know that there is a learning curve and it will take a little while but we appreciate all the help so far. Last thing- We are using a new 48ft Miro Wizard track. I believe the proxy races are run on a 42ft Best Track. How do we convert the times we run on our track to compare to the Best Track. I believe the degree of slope is more gradual on our track. Thanks again for everyone's help and input. Steepslope24,
I think you can see from the responses that there is no "magic bullet" when it comes to building a fast derby car.
I would suggest building a car and send it in to PWDR and see how it does, then go from there. This would also give you a baseline to compare the times against your track. There are truly tons of options! Some builders "cant" rear axles, some don't. Some use grooved axles, some don't. Some use BSA 1g. wheels, some use Derbyworx SS wheels (depends on the class). Some use tungsten, some use lead. Some use graphite, some use oil. Some use the block, some don't. Some narrow the front end, some don't. etc., etc...
This may not be answering your questions, but I think you get the point. The main thing is, find what works best for you!
All the examples above can be used to build a fast car!
David
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Post by jayjayrocketman on Feb 27, 2009 21:22:01 GMT -6
well looks like everything I have been doing is all wrong or is it? just playing. we will be sending in probably a couple cars at a time. after next weeks race. I have cut about 4 different cars all different shapes and 1 rail rider and some raised in frt and other 1 is just plain ugly and last one looks kind of like dale jr. car (probably come in last, but it it was fun trying). the prettiest doesn't always win. lead is free and you can melt it if you want to fill in holes drilled for the weight. last year weight placement i dont feel played as much a factor as long as it was towards the back 1/2 the car. this newer track and different slope of start gate may play into it more. we will see. the worst part is not spending the time needed on the car due to patience for perfection,(or bettering your car) steepslope and I have been very critical of why he does it one way and I do it another. kind of fun and we are learning alot.
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lasound
Oil, Oil, Oil
www.derbydad4hire.com for Pinewood SPEED Supplies
Posts: 57
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Post by lasound on Feb 27, 2009 21:22:10 GMT -6
A lot of you know that jayjayrocketman and I have been posting questions lately in our quest to enter and eventually win races. Our immediate goal is to gain enough information in order to eventually be competitive. Listed below are things that we have or know and things or questions we still seek answers to. -We both have tools- Scroll saw, table saw, drill press, dremel, dremel work station, table mounted belt sander, and cordless drill. -Run three wheels with fourth raised. -Figure out how to cant wheels and adjust to perfection. - Rail riding is quickest way down. Either with narrow front or canting of wheels. Is one better than the other? Can you combine both methods? - Should we always use speed axles? - Does everyone use the BSA 1 gram wheels? - Should we not even think about using lead and always use tungsten weight? - Has anyone built a winning car using lead? - Figure out the art of applying Bondo or Evercoat. I am working with Bondo red putty now in order to get my car super smooth. - Hob-e-lube or Nyoil? We've been using Nyoil lately. - Use the Block? - Build a shipping case from an old tackle box. Is that everything? I'm sure it's not. I know that there is a learning curve and it will take a little while but we appreciate all the help so far. Last thing- We are using a new 48ft Miro Wizard track. I believe the proxy races are run on a 42ft Best Track. How do we convert the times we run on our track to compare to the Best Track. I believe the degree of slope is more gradual on our track. Thanks again for everyone's help and input. Steepslope24,
I think you can see from the responses that there is no "magic bullet" when it comes to building a fast derby car.
I would suggest building a car and send it in to PWDR and see how it does, then go from there. This would also give you a baseline to compare the times against your track. There are truly tons of options! Some builders "cant" rear axles, some don't. Some use grooved axles, some don't. Some use BSA 1g. wheels, some use Derbyworx SS wheels (depends on the class). Some use tungsten, some use lead. Some use graphite, some use oil. Some use the block, some don't. Some narrow the front end, some don't. etc., etc...
This may not be answering your questions, but I think you get the point. The main thing is, find what works best for you!
All the examples above can be used to build a fast car!
DavidNo offense to anyone here but the answer to your question would be correctly answered by the fastest person here. It is true that there are many different methods but there is always the best method. You might want to consult Proquest because he seems to own this track therefore he must have the best method figured out. If you look at the different builders there is only one thing that seperates them and that is alignment ability and methods. We all have access to the same wheels, lubes, axles and so on so the magic lies in the alignment. Unless there are some magic wheels we don't know about...
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Post by psycaz on Feb 27, 2009 21:28:39 GMT -6
The only magic bullet is to HAVE FUN while you do it!! Enjoy the racing. Enjoy the camaraderie. Make some friends. Share some stories.
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Post by Quillen Racing on Feb 28, 2009 2:18:21 GMT -6
Steepslope24,
I think you can see from the responses that there is no "magic bullet" when it comes to building a fast derby car.
I would suggest building a car and send it in to PWDR and see how it does, then go from there. This would also give you a baseline to compare the times against your track. There are truly tons of options! Some builders "cant" rear axles, some don't. Some use grooved axles, some don't. Some use BSA 1g. wheels, some use Derbyworx SS wheels (depends on the class). Some use tungsten, some use lead. Some use graphite, some use oil. Some use the block, some don't. Some narrow the front end, some don't. etc., etc...
This may not be answering your questions, but I think you get the point. The main thing is, find what works best for you!
All the examples above can be used to build a fast car!
David No offense to anyone here but the answer to your question would be correctly answered by the fastest person here. It is true that there are many different methods but there is always the best method. You might want to consult Proquest because he seems to own this track therefore he must have the best method figured out. If you look at the different builders there is only one thing that seperates them and that is alignment ability and methods. We all have access to the same wheels, lubes, axles and so on so the magic lies in the alignment. Unless there are some magic wheels we don't know about... Non taken, and while it is true that ProQuest builds some very fast cars, I'm sure he doesn't mind if some of us other builders offer our advise as well. And, while it is true that alignment is very critical, it is still just one piece of the puzzle. There are many other factors involved to make your car run at its maximum potential. I think most builders would agree that each car has its own "sweet spot." As far as the magic wheels, RailHugger told me once that he had some "special wheels." I sure wish I could get in touch with him.
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Post by F.A.S.T Racing on Feb 28, 2009 16:52:46 GMT -6
.... What is a 10x magnifying loupe? The greater clarity & magnification of a loupe allows you to see the surface imperfections of the bore and axle better. Most hand held magnifying glasses are only 2x or 3x.
Loupes are not very expensive, about $10 - $20 A glass lens gives better detail than a plastic lens
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Post by jayjayrocketman on Mar 1, 2009 10:29:25 GMT -6
I think the key to what we saw yesterday on steepslopes and my cars for the adult race and future pwd is truely consistency. both cars made by steepslope and myself are consistent down the track as far as timing and also alignment with 4 wheels on track. 48 foot track all cars respectably at 3.59-3.66 seconds. following pwd rules. we have ground and polished axles 1 gram wheels, lead weights and steepslope is using tungsten. it is tweaking a little to get at least .1-.2 tenths off to make them unbeatable which i think is very possible. most of it is trimming down on wood and weight placement. trial and error. added .4oz to the back of the car and lost about .18 tenths of a second. this is very fun and very addicting. i know changing wheels to lighter weight and adding more weight would also help but maybe after next saturday we will be able to play around a little more and see what works better.
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Post by Goat Boy on Mar 8, 2009 11:08:39 GMT -6
Can anyone tell me what Evercoat is? I googled it but came up with the company and seems like they have a million products. Would this work well for filling in weight pockets to sand smooth and then paint?
Ian
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Post by knotthead on Mar 9, 2009 4:32:25 GMT -6
Ian, Evercoat is a brand of body filler. There are several types, from coarse fiber fillers to smooth/creamy glazing compounds. They are all a two part mix and will get very hot when setting up. Depending on how thick you put it on, it may even cause the wood to twist. Found this out the hard way . The stuff weighs about the same as wood, so have your scale handy. Use a "cheese grater" (a body man's tool that resembles a real cheese grater) to cut the excess plastic before it fully hardens, then a coarse paper to shape the stuff. If you use a fine paper, the wood will be worn away before the plastic, creating a shape you didn't want. Here's a pic of things you'll need and the order of process; Hope this helps. Sometimes, pictures are more clear than description Later... Lee
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