Wheels at workshops

[Evolution]

I just wanted to share an experience about wheels at this evenings workshop.

The boys brought their kits to the workshop tonight and many were unopened when they got there. I told the boys I would measure their wheels for them and if I found any that were really bad I would replace them. I started measuring the wheels and found that many of the wheels had .008 or more runout. There were very few wheels with runout of less then that. Some of the wheels were molds that had been good molds in the past. It seems that maybe the molds are getting worn and all the molds are settling into a certain area for runout as most were around the .008.

I had not purchased wheels in a good while as I order a large amount when I do order them. What are you guys seeing this year for runout on the wheels? Was this something from just these kits or is this becoming the normal?

The kits had every mold number and the lowest runout I saw was on a mold #3. I even saw a good #16 in the mix. I also saw a #2 with .010 runout. That I had not seem before. Just wondering what other are seeing, this season.

I often do not measure wheels before I cut them. I normally only check them after I cut them, so I had not paid attention to any changes if this has been happening for a while.

[5KidsRacing]

I cut the step out of 30 sets so far and then hand spun them on good .091 axle. I placed the ones I thought were pretty good over by themselves.... I had 6 sets of "goodish" ones at the end. Made me feel bad handing them out, but like Evo said, there were good numbers in there and some of those looked bad. They spun worse before I took the second step out though...

[Evolution]

All the wheels that we checked this evening were then lathe turned and all were able to be cut into pure stockers. I did not go and check all of them after they were turned as Sky was turning them for the scouts. I figured that was fair. The ones I did pull and check had under .001 runout when he was finished. Not bad for a young man and a lathe.

[murph]

With respect to using the current crop of wheels for limited or PS, what would be the preferred mold? We can clean-up the outside circumference but what about the inside? I am going to try out the RLN Wheel balancer and see what I find out. Any thoughts?

Sent from my GT-P7510 using ProBoards

[Evolution]

Murph,

I am not sure I understand the question, but I will take a shot at it.

In Pure Stock and Limited you are not allowed to remove any material from the inside of the wheel, except for reconing of the hub. That is the only work you are allowed to do to the inside of the wheel.

For Pure Stock and Limited you are only allowed to remove material from three areas of the wheel. That is the tread surface, the inside edge of the wheel, and the hub.

[murph]

I will try to rephrase:
What mold numbers are the most balanced when you put them on a balancer after you have cut the thread surface and inside edge? Assume that the wheels have been cut accurately.

I am on the road all week so I cannot do a check. Can check in a couple of weeks. Nobody talks about balancing. You can add weight to balance a wheel correct?

Traveling Murph

[CycRunner]

Here is the data from two of my sets of Revel BSA wheels - one made in the USA, the other China:
BSA mold #4= .003" runout
BSA mold #7= .002" runout
BSA mold #13= .002" runout
BSA mold #16 = .003" runout
These were all from the same purchased container.

China molds are all #2 (they just came this way in the container, not selected)!
Runout sample one = .007", all the rest (3) = .008" runout.

I have been able to true up the China wheels before the minimum diameter of 1.170" for pure stock is reached, no problem!

[CycRunner]

Murph,
I made my own balancer using two side by side razor blades. After truing up my BSA wheels I still have to balance them - yes, by adding weight to the inside. I use a little dab of nail polish, and that works fine.
For the wheels that I make from scratch, and drill for lightening, I still have to balance. As close and accurately as I am able to drill the holes balancing is still needed. For my own wheels I remove material not add.

[murph]

Good insight Cyc!

The Revell Wheels have an enormous side-to-side runout. Agreed, the radius can be cleaned-up but that side-to-side runout is difficult to overcome.

I have tried to run Revell Wheels, cut to the limits established by PWDR, for Limited Class, and the track times were extremely slow.

Those wheels might make good Stock (1 gram) wheels if you cut the thread, and inside/outside faces of the wheel because the material seems pretty hard.

The bore minimum diameter is somewhat smaller than traditional BSA Wheels but there is a larger draft angle (inner to outer bore) diameter on these wheels which offsets the gain of the material hardness and minimum bore diameter. This "extreme" draft angle would counter the ideology the the wheels could be used for Stock Class.

Currently, the fastest "1 gram wide wheels" that I have cut with a lathe, have been cutting select old style wheels, with small diameter bores.

These wheels have been extremely modified to totally remove the outer face and remove the rest of the material from the inside. Wheel diameter is small. I don't have the numbers in front of me right now.

If I did not have these wheels, I would still run Derby Worx 1 grams because of the consistent quality of the product right from the manufacturer.

You could say I am biased because of my ties with Derby Worx but I do like their product. I was not working with Bill when I started running SLT-R1 with Derby Worx 1 grams. Other vendors also might have good product. I have not run their product.

Cutting 1 gram wheels is extremely difficult. There is not much material left to machine. Special jigs must be used and you must have several lathes to cut them yourself if you want to repeat the procedure over time.

These "select" BSA Wheels had very small diameter bores. The bores fit tight on 0.090" axles. The wheels would not turn freely on the axles when turned by your finger. I ran these wheels on my Stocker and Hot Rod at the Nationals. Wild..... Additionally, I was not running Krytox at nationals.

The oil mix that I used at Nationals yielded 0.005 seconds faster than my baseline on Stock and Modified. I don't know on Limited because I had a hard time getting a car to run fast for nationals. Baseline was anything that you can buy right now. You cannot buy what I ran at nationals. I might not run the oil again till the next nationals or Buckeye Race.

My other Stocker that I ran at nationals was not running my oil mixture. That car was my base line for running. I thought it would run slightly faster at nationals.

My mixture is dynamic and I do not totally understand what I have right now. It is not an oil "coctail" that I have discussed previously. This area is extremely to understand.

Murph

[quadad]

I saw some large scale data from a friend showing very similar rapid quality degredation in the current crop of BSA wheels (started a thread on DT about this a couple of weeks ago). The beautiful runout that they started with has gone. Similar results though as far as which wheels had tighter bores, but the rest has gone down hill. I motion we send the 6-Sigma, Black Belt quality guy (Murph) to their manufacturing plant to straighten them out ! ;D

[murph]

Tonight, I picked-up 40 sets of wheels of different colors. The black wheels were awful in terms of radial and side-to-side runout. The colored wheels were of much better quality.

Not many 2s. Lots of 3 and 15 mold numbers. The mold #1s spun reasonably well. The 12s spun smooth. The 2, 3, 7, and 15 mold numbers ran smooth with exceptions.

I have nothing along but to spin on smooth part of BSA Axle. Still, I have spun, and cut over 500 wheels over the last few years. I can eye good and bad wheels.

I am sitting on a large amount of good wheels from last year. Guess I better guard them!

Based on this small sample size, it might be good to stock-up on colored wheels.

[5KidsRacing]

Jan 9, 2012 21:44:47 GMT -6 @murph said:

Tonight, I picked-up 40 sets of wheels of different colors. The black wheels were awful in terms of radial and side-to-side runout. The colored wheels were of much better quality.

Not many 2s. Lots of 3 and 15 mold numbers. The mold #1s spun reasonably well. The 12s spun smooth. The 2, 3, 7, and 15 mold numbers ran smooth with exceptions.

I have nothing along but to spin on smooth part of BSA Axle. Still, I have spun, and cut over 500 wheels over the last few years. I can eye good and bad wheels.

I am sitting on a large amount of good wheels from last year. Guess I better guard them!

Based on this small sample size, it might be good to stock-up on colored wheels.

Murph when you say "The mold #1s spun reasonably well. The 12s spun smooth. The 2, 3, 7, and 15 mold numbers ran smooth with exceptions." are you talking about all colors including black? just colors? just black?

[Evolution]

I sat down and cut 45 sets of wheels yesterday. All the molds I cut were able to be cleaned up to the 1.170 spec of pure stock.

[CycRunner]

It is not clear to me what origin you all are referring to for your BSA wheels - Are these USA made or China? If you don't specify I am not sure which! Have any of you been able to buy new USA made Revel wheels recently, or are they made in China?

[Evolution]

I purchase all my wheels from BSA and I try to buy from the local office. The local office gets a small amount of the sale.

I have not seen any wheels from Revell that were made in the USA. I am not saying that they aren't out there, but I have not seen any.