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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 5:35:25 GMT -6
I'm an old drag racer (67 years old) that got the PWD bug while my son was deployed in the middle east and grandsons needed help with PWD cars. It didn't take long for my life long need for speed to get me totally wrapped up in pine cars. We have started to plan this years cars and I naturally have many questions. I'm going to throw out my scenario and give anyone that wants time to mull it over for a week while I fly to Ontario Canada for a Muskie fishing trip, also a life long love. The track we will be on is a home made wood track (less than perfect) and race rules are pretty strict. We are going to build our first RR 3 wheel on the ground car with canted rear axle holes and straight front holes with bent axle on DFW. Last years car had a 3/4" COG and was a bit wobbley (is that a word?) but had no steer drift. This years car will be 1/4" thick for about the first 2/3 of the car with the last 1/3 at 1/2" high. All added weight will be within 1/4" of car bottom. Most of my questions center around steer drift, cog, slope of 72" tuning board I will use, graphite application and break in (last year I used a treadmill and thought it did great for me but not sure if it is the best), glue type and application to secure axle and best wheel clearance to body. Think about it if you want and I'll check back in a week if I don't get eaten by a huge Muskie.
Thanks Bill bclinn
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Post by B.S.B. Racing on Sept 23, 2012 8:12:49 GMT -6
I'm an old drag racer (67 years old) that got the PWD bug while my son was deployed in the middle east and grandsons needed help with PWD cars. It didn't take long for my life long need for speed to get me totally wrapped up in pine cars. We have started to plan this years cars and I naturally have many questions. I'm going to throw out my scenario and give anyone that wants time to mull it over for a week while I fly to Ontario Canada for a Muskie fishing trip, also a life long love. The track we will be on is a home made wood track (less than perfect) and race rules are pretty strict. We are going to build our first RR 3 wheel on the ground car with canted rear axle holes and straight front holes with bent axle on DFW. Last years car had a 3/4" COG and was a bit wobbley (is that a word?) but had no steer drift. This years car will be 1/4" thick for about the first 2/3 of the car with the last 1/3 at 1/2" high. All added weight will be within 1/4" of car bottom. Most of my questions center around steer drift, cog, slope of 72" tuning board I will use, graphite application and break in (last year I used a treadmill and thought it did great for me but not sure if it is the best), glue type and application to secure axle and best wheel clearance to body. Think about it if you want and I'll check back in a week if I don't get eaten by a huge Muskie. Thanks Bill bclinn Glad to see another guy over 60 joining in on the fun. I'm sure if you were a drag racer you have the competitive spirit. It sounds like you stepping up to the plate in your son's absence will make him proud. From your post it sounds like it's a pure stock build, graphite, etc. This is not my strong class, but there are many guys on here that are very gifted in this class. I'm sure they will be glad to help field your questions. Hope to see you racing soon and looking forward to hearing how the grandson's races came out.
Good luck fishing......just remember, if you want the really big Muskies, you have to use a big lure. You know, 7" long, 5 ounces in weight..............got any PWD cars that are painted a bright color and didn't work out so well? Screw an eyelet in the nose, some treble hooks and you are good to go! ;D
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Post by X-Ring Racing on Sept 24, 2012 10:07:45 GMT -6
Just one quick thought to throw out there while i'm at work...... don't try to get better than 3/4" cog on a track like that. Somewhere between 3/4 to 1" will do you good.
Posting a copy of your rules will help get advise. You say you are going to use graphite, but you don't say "you have to".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 10:12:00 GMT -6
Thanks for your thoughts on COG at up to 1" on the home made wood track, sort of what I was thinking. I won't have run time on track so I must get close on steer drift, any thoughts on best guess for a raceable drift on a 72" board? Any thoughts on tread mill to lube and run in graphite as I must use a dry lube? Thanks
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Post by CycRunner on Oct 3, 2012 1:35:44 GMT -6
Thanks for your thoughts on COG at up to 1" on the home made wood track, sort of what I was thinking. I won't have run time on track so I must get close on steer drift, any thoughts on best guess for a raceable drift on a 72" board? Any thoughts on tread mill to lube and run in graphite as I must use a dry lube? Thanks I have been fairly successful using graphite and also use a 6 foot tuning board. The drift on my board usually turns out to be around 6 to 9 inches at 6 feet, but if you can't test on the track you will be racing on I would favor more drift than less. As far as breaking in I have used a treadmill but found no advantage in breaking in. Just burnish the graphite in the wheel bore well using a fluffy pipe cleaner. And, add graphite to the wheels/axels just before racing. Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 2:24:15 GMT -6
Great, thanks for your time.
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Post by X-Ring Racing on Oct 4, 2012 8:42:15 GMT -6
I have used q-tip shaft to burnish graphite into the bore, with great results for a league car last year. But I have also used a soft tip polisher mounted in a dremel with the wheels on a car. The idea is you sit in front of the tv, and use the dremel to keep the wheels spinning , all the while adding more graphite. The idea is you're making the car run many races before it's ever on the track. This is probably not the method most league racers use, but I've found it to be very effective. It's an older idea that is laid out in a book from the scout shop. My son was undefeated for 2 years in our pack on graphite prepped this way. This is the book, don't get me wrong, the info you will get from racers on this forum is the best and superb. But I'm still fond of graphite method in this book for scout racing. It's also something fun the scout can do with you watching. www.barnesandnoble.com/listing/2685978067712?cm_mmc=GooglePLA-_-Book-_-Q000000633-_-2685978067712&cm_mmca2=pla&r=1If you are interested in either of these methods, I believe the q-tip thing can be found on the forum. If you are interested in the dremel method, I can explain more, or maybe u have the book in your local scout shop. Don't use any glue for the axles. If the axle holes are drilled properly, no glue is needed. I made that mistake in my earlier years. It's hard for many new guys to grasp, being paranoid about the wheels flying off, but trust me it won't happen with properly drilled hole sizes. Don't use the treadmill, it will mess up the tread surface.
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Post by DC Gravity on Oct 4, 2012 19:46:01 GMT -6
I too use this method but the key is lowest speed setting and a light touch. We learned the hard way one year when my son got bored and decided to uptick to 32k rpm and trashing the bore--literally melting a groove in there from also pressing too hard and catching the lip of the axle groove, or I think that's what happened. Btw the book is available in the pwd section of both Michaels and AC Moore craft stores.
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Post by ProQuest on Oct 4, 2012 23:13:56 GMT -6
Bill,
The best advice I can think of has nothing to do with the build, but rather the track. When using the rail riding technique it is especially important that you check the track for protruding edges on the center rail. I helped a friend and his son build a rail rider last year for his first Scout race. The track was an older wooden track like the one you described. The car caught a center rail ledge and was thrown off the track in three separate heats. Fortunately, each time the track was adjusted and the heat re-run and my friend's son won the derby in spite of the repeated mishaps. But the car could easily have been damaged beyond repair or disqualified. Don't be embarrassed to inspect the track and request adjustments if you detect a potential hazard. Just my 2 cents.
ProQuest
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 3:49:59 GMT -6
Wow! Good ideas and friendly help, how can you beat that. I like the burnishing ideas of the dremel spining the wheel while applying graphite rather than the treadmil. Any thoughts on cleaning graphite off tread of wheels as compared to leaving it on for less friction between wheel tread and track? I have heard of the Walgreen Q-tip stem (best size?) being used for the burnishing of graphite with sucess, maybe the Q-tip and then some spin with Dremil is in order. Thanks for your time and the help.
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Post by ZZ Racing on Oct 5, 2012 5:46:09 GMT -6
Yes the Walgreens brand fits the best. You don't want any graphite on the tread area as it will slow you down. If running a rail rider put just a little graphite on your finger and hold it against the edge of the wheel that will contact the rail and turn the wheel working graphite into the edge. I have seen cars pickup 5 to 6 thousandths by doing this.
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Post by X-Ring Racing on Oct 5, 2012 8:43:01 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 11:06:51 GMT -6
I'm all over the Dremel thing, probably stores better than the treadmill I was keeping around just for graphite run-in.
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Post by Mr. Slick on Oct 19, 2012 6:13:27 GMT -6
Graphite... That I understand. Make sure you spin in(2-3 mins. by hand) any that you add and blow away the excess unless you are going to be running more then 15 runs on race day. When people add graphite right before check-in without spinning it in and blowing off the excess, we hand them their times at the end and they get a sheet with times that keep getting faster with each run.... never reaching the potential. A run down the long track lasts about 4 seconds, they have 7 runs (the 'volunteer training' run and each of the 6 lanes) which totals less than 30 seconds....way less than the recommended 2-3 minutes of spinning after applying graphite. For a wooden track I would suggest about a 3 degree bend on the DFW that is against the rail. This helps limit the effects of a rough joint taking a chip out of the wheel. With a lesser cant there is too much of a leading edge that can come in contact with the protruding joint section. You can't avoid the "bump" but you want to minimize damage to the wheel. Also make sure to rub graphite on the inner edge of the wheel that is riding the rail. I usually rub it on several times. Here is a summary of how at the workshop we instruct people to put graphite in the 4 critical places. The 4 places are between wheel and axle head, between wheel and axle bore, between wheel and car body, and the DFW edge that will touch the track. They are instructed to apply graphite and then spin it in for 2-3 minutes at each location and repeat this 4 times. The first is to make sure to apply graphite between the axle head and the wheel and spin it in. To do this, hold the wheel with the outside up, put the axle down through the bore. Hold the axle upright so that the head of the axle is not touching the wheel and apply graphite between nail head and wheel. Pull the axle down against the wheel and burnish it in with a few turns of the axle. Then invert axle and spin with wheel riding on the axle head. Repeat this 4 times on each wheel. Next, with the axle pointing up and the wheel resting on the axle head, fill the gap between the wheel and axle with graphite, lightly tap the wheel several times to get the graphite to settle down between wheel and axle. Then spin with the axle horizontal. While spinning it is VERY important to also be rotating the axle so that the entire axle surface gets covered. We demonstrate by holding the axle between thumb and finger and rolling it back and forth as it is spun for the 2-3 minutes(again 4 times). This will help insure that the section of the axle that ends up in contact with the wheel has been covered. Finally, after inserting the wheel/axle into the car, apply graphite to the wheel bore and push the wheel up against the body and rotate the wheel a few times. Then turn the car on it's side and spin the wheel so it is against the body for 2-3 minutes to get the graphite burnished onto the car and the wheel hub surface that will be in contact with the body. Repeat this 4 times also. Most of the graphite products being used have an additive to help adhere to the surfaces. The graphite is a thin film lubricant so if you see it after all of the spinning, there is too much left and you should blow it off. From my experience, the two most critical spots are on the DFW, between the wheel and the body and the inner edge of the wheel that will be riding the rail... Buckeye Dash was a fine example of the use of graphite.... BTW, up north in the land of 10,000 lakes, we often use the phrase "swims like a trout" for the cars that have wobble. Good luck!
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