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Post by blizzardracer on Feb 7, 2011 21:23:35 GMT -6
I have been put in charge of the district derby. Last year it seems there was an issue with lightened wheels, which is illegal in our district. What is the best way to check for lightened wheels. ex. inside diameter, tread thickness, wheel width. I do have a digital caliper to measure with, so what would be the easiest way to check and if it would be one of the examples above, what measurements are legal and which ones go over the line?
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Post by wracing on Feb 7, 2011 23:10:40 GMT -6
I would ask Randy over at Max-v if you can use his picture of the various full weight and lightened wheels.
Make sure every one knows that this will be posted at the race and the officials will be looking for them.
This will keep the honest ones away from them...
The simplest test are:
1) to look for the writting on the inside of the wheel.
2) Pinch test. The lightened wheels will collapse a bit when you squeze them.
3) Visual comparison with the picture and with a pair of unlightened wheels.
I am sure others will have more ideas.
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Post by Lucky 13 on Feb 7, 2011 23:16:26 GMT -6
I have been put in charge of the district derby. Last year it seems there was an issue with lightened wheels, which is illegal in our district. What is the best way to check for lightened wheels. ex. inside diameter, tread thickness, wheel width. I do have a digital caliper to measure with, so what would be the easiest way to check and if it would be one of the examples above, what measurements are legal and which ones go over the line? Your best bet it to first start with clear rules stating what is and isn't allowed as far as wheel modifications are allowed. Vague rules lead to problems. Take a look at the Limited Rules here at PWDR, they may be something you want to incorporate into your District rules. As for checking wheels. A visual check by someone who knows what they are looking for is your first line of defense. Get your inspection team familiar with the different wheels that are out there. Having a set of calipers (or a ruler that reads mm) and a flashlight handy is also a must. When I check wheels on the Limited cars, I look to make sure the serrated edge is still visible first, I then use a flashlight to look inside the wheels to make sure there has been no material removed and last, if I can see the wheel width has been altered, I check it to make sure it is a minimum 7.5mm wide. Having a few bone stock wheels sitting at the table with you also helps to give you a reference when inspecting wheels. If you have suspicions about a wheel, you can compare it to a stock wheel and look for obvious differences. Lucky 13
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Post by Sporty on Feb 8, 2011 9:20:44 GMT -6
The best way to show to peopel doing the inspections, is to get them all together in a meeting setting and hand out and discuss and mention and show those wheels. so they han see and learn what to look for and how to handle it and deal with it, when found.
A friend once told me, the biggest issue is having people know what to look for and understanding what they are looking for and at.
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Post by DerbyDominator on Feb 8, 2011 10:24:13 GMT -6
I get this question or similar quite a bit during the season. Excellent comments from everyone here on the wheels. Having a good set of rules is the best start. Not addressing issues like wheelbase, axle holes vs. slots, etc. only leaves things open to interpretation which helps those who are more aggressive with the rules and hurts those more conservative. I would suggest that you have everyone sign a sheet that states they have received and read the rules given to them before they get their car kits. A question and answer period at that time would be helpful as well. One could add a comment on the sheet that they are agreeing to build the car by the rules and have the parent and scout both sign the sheet. The issue you are preventing here is someone at check in saying they didn't know or understand the rules and you are getting a commitment. The problem is that if people want to cheat on this, then there are ways that you just simply cannot uncover during inspection. You have to assume the best in people and especially the scouts. With regard to the wheels in particular, I have attached a picture that I send to administrators showing the difference between the lightened wheels on the right and a regular wheel on the left. As you can see, the tread thickness on the lightened wheel is noticeably less than the one on the left. Alas, there are some lightened wheels on the market that have a larger rim to give them more rigidity in that contact area. They do look more like normal wheels and I am not sure that visual inspection would work in that case. If you want, I can email you this picture as well. Just email me at dhuntley@derbydominator.com and I can send it to you. One other suggestion is to send the rules to the administrators for all the packs in that district, that way you will have a consistent building process for each pack that is in line with what you are doing for the district race. I hear of too many packs who have one set of rules and the district has a totally different set they go by. Hope it helps! Darryl
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Post by blizzardracer on Feb 21, 2011 22:22:34 GMT -6
Thanks for all of the help in showing me what to look for.
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Post by quicksteve on Apr 23, 2011 13:41:30 GMT -6
Best idea here is to familiarize yourself and the inspection team with the real deal. Kinda like spotting forged bills, if you know the feel of the real it is easier to spot the fake. I also use the pinch method but i do it at the gonogo box when checking clearance height. If i press lightly at the axle center of the body i can feel and see a lightened wheel fairly easy and most dont even realize when i find it and confront them.
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Post by beakerboysracing on Apr 23, 2011 17:20:58 GMT -6
Best idea here is to familiarize yourself and the inspection team with the real deal. Kinda like spotting forged bills, if you know the feel of the real it is easier to spot the fake. I also use the pinch method but i do it at the gonogo box when checking clearance height. If i press lightly at the axle center of the body i can feel and see a lightened wheel fairly easy and most dont even realize when i find it and confront them. You're asking for trouble if go pressing down with your fingers on boys cars. Bending axles, warping wheels, breaking axle holes, messing up alignments. I would be upset if a race official did that to one my boys cars. Visual inspection is easy, if you educated yourself with what to look for. If a race official does anything that can be construed as damaging a boys car, then just how objective is that race official being? I wouldn't want to put myself in that position.
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Post by Mr. Slick on Apr 24, 2011 18:46:15 GMT -6
There is no substitute for a few good tools. I suggest samples of the various lightened wheels, a flashlight, a micromiter/outside caliper, and a dental pick.
The flashlight will make it easier to spot the wheels that have been lightened and have some of the outer edges of the letters clipped.
The micometer/outside caliper is used to check the thickness of the tread surface.
The dental pick is to feel the lip on the edge of the tread that is left on some of the lightened wheels. Depending on the micrometer surfaces, it may not be able to detect those as being thinner.
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Post by *5 J's* on Oct 3, 2011 10:19:37 GMT -6
We are looking at revisiting and revising our Cub Scout district rules. We want to ensure they rules are all still relevant, they are fair, and they are enforceable.
I have read the posts above, but wasn't sure if there were any new inspection procedures. Anyway to weigh and installed wheels? Any other objective or quantitative checks? The "intent" of our rules are to allow BSA wheels as is allowed in the Pure Stock class
What about axles? The "intent" of our rules is to allow the removal of flashing and polishing only of a stock BSA axle. Are there any checks other then a visual inspection that can be done?
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Post by Shade Racing on Oct 4, 2011 13:32:17 GMT -6
only thing I would think of is a after race break down. Let the top 3 finishers in each class pull their wheels in front of the judges so the axleas can be checked.
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